using System;
using static System.Console;
using System.Linq;
using System.Collections.Generic;
using System.Security.Cryptography;

class Program
{
    static int NN => int.Parse(ReadLine());
    static int[] NList => ReadLine().Split().Select(int.Parse).ToArray();
    static int[][] NArr(long n) => Enumerable.Repeat(0, (int)n).Select(_ => NList).ToArray();
    static string[] SList(long n) => Enumerable.Repeat(0, (int)n).Select(_ => ReadLine()).ToArray();
    public static void Main()
    {
        Solve();
    }
    static void Solve()
    {
        var a = ReadLine();
        var b = ReadLine();
        var alist = new List<Info>();
        foreach (var ai in a)
        {
            if ('a' <= ai && ai <= 'z') alist.Add(new Info(ai));
            else if (ai == '?') alist[^1].Q = true;
            else if (ai == '*') alist[^1].S = true;
        }
        var blist = new List<Info>();
        foreach (var bi in b)
        {
            if ('a' <= bi && bi <= 'z') blist.Add(new Info(bi));
            else if (bi == '?') blist[^1].Q = true;
            else if (bi == '*') blist[^1].S = true;
        }
        var INF = int.MaxValue / 2;
        var dp = new int[alist.Count + 1, blist.Count + 1];
        for (var i = 0; i <= alist.Count; ++i) for (var j = 0; j <= blist.Count; ++j) dp[i, j] = INF;
        dp[0, 0] = 0;
        for (var i = 0; i < alist.Count; ++i) for (var j = 0; j < blist.Count; ++j)
        {
            if ((alist[i].Q || alist[i].S) && (blist[i].Q || blist[i].S))
            {
                Setdp(dp, i, j + 1, dp[i, j]);
                Setdp(dp, i + 1, j, dp[i, j]);
                Setdp(dp, i + 1, j + 1, dp[i, j]);
            }
            else if (alist[i].Q)
            {
                if (alist[i].C == blist[j].C)
                {
                    Setdp(dp, i, j + 1, dp[i, j] + 1);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j, dp[i, j]);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j + 1, dp[i, j]);
                }
                else
                {
                    Setdp(dp, i, j + 1, dp[i, j] + 1);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j, dp[i, j]);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j + 1, dp[i, j] + 1);
                }
            }
            else if (alist[i].S)
            {
                if (alist[i].C == blist[j].C)
                {
                    Setdp(dp, i, j + 1, dp[i, j]);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j, dp[i, j]);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j + 1, dp[i, j]);
                }
                else
                {
                    Setdp(dp, i, j + 1, dp[i, j] + 1);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j, dp[i, j]);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j + 1, dp[i, j] + 1);
                }
            }
            else if (blist[j].Q)
            {
                if (alist[i].C == blist[j].C)
                {
                    Setdp(dp, i, j + 1, dp[i, j]);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j, dp[i, j] + 1);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j + 1, dp[i, j]);
                }
                else
                {
                    Setdp(dp, i, j + 1, dp[i, j]);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j, dp[i, j] + 1);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j + 1, dp[i, j] + 1);
                }
            }
            else if (blist[j].S)
            {
                if (alist[i].C == blist[j].C)
                {
                    Setdp(dp, i, j + 1, dp[i, j]);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j, dp[i, j]);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j + 1, dp[i, j]);
                }
                else
                {
                    Setdp(dp, i, j + 1, dp[i, j]);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j, dp[i, j] + 1);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j + 1, dp[i, j] + 1);
                }
            }
            else
            {
                if (alist[i].C == blist[j].C)
                {
                    Setdp(dp, i, j + 1, dp[i, j]);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j, dp[i, j]);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j + 1, dp[i, j]);
                }
                else
                {
                    Setdp(dp, i, j + 1, dp[i, j] + 1);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j, dp[i, j] + 1);
                    Setdp(dp, i + 1, j + 1, dp[i, j] + 2);
                }
            }
        }
        for (var i = 0; i < alist.Count; ++i)
        {
            if (alist[i].Q || alist[i].S) Setdp(dp, i + 1, blist.Count, dp[i, blist.Count]);
            else Setdp(dp, i + 1, blist.Count, dp[i, blist.Count] + 1);
        }
        for (var j = 0; j < blist.Count; ++j)
        {
            if (blist[j].Q || blist[j].S) Setdp(dp, alist.Count, j + 1, dp[alist.Count, j]);
            else Setdp(dp, alist.Count, j + 1, dp[alist.Count, j] + 1);
        }
        WriteLine(dp[alist.Count, blist.Count]);
    }
    static void Setdp(int[,] dp, int tx, int ty, int setval)
    {
        dp[tx, ty] = Math.Min(dp[tx, ty], setval);
    }
    class Info
    {
        public char C;
        public bool Q;
        public bool S;
        public Info(char c)
        {
            C = c;
        }
    }
}