#include <bits/stdc++.h>

using namespace std;

using int64 = long long;
const int mod = 1e9 + 7;

const int64 infll = (1LL << 62) - 1;
const int inf = (1 << 30) - 1;

struct IoSetup {
  IoSetup() {
    cin.tie(nullptr);
    ios::sync_with_stdio(false);
    cout << fixed << setprecision(10);
    cerr << fixed << setprecision(10);
  }
} iosetup;


template< typename T1, typename T2 >
ostream &operator<<(ostream &os, const pair< T1, T2 > &p) {
  os << p.first << " " << p.second;
  return os;
}

template< typename T1, typename T2 >
istream &operator>>(istream &is, pair< T1, T2 > &p) {
  is >> p.first >> p.second;
  return is;
}

template< typename T >
ostream &operator<<(ostream &os, const vector< T > &v) {
  for(int i = 0; i < (int) v.size(); i++) {
    os << v[i] << (i + 1 != v.size() ? " " : "");
  }
  return os;
}

template< typename T >
istream &operator>>(istream &is, vector< T > &v) {
  for(T &in : v) is >> in;
  return is;
}

template< typename T1, typename T2 >
inline bool chmax(T1 &a, T2 b) { return a < b && (a = b, true); }

template< typename T1, typename T2 >
inline bool chmin(T1 &a, T2 b) { return a > b && (a = b, true); }

template< typename T = int64 >
vector< T > make_v(size_t a) {
  return vector< T >(a);
}

template< typename T, typename... Ts >
auto make_v(size_t a, Ts... ts) {
  return vector< decltype(make_v< T >(ts...)) >(a, make_v< T >(ts...));
}

template< typename T, typename V >
typename enable_if< is_class< T >::value == 0 >::type fill_v(T &t, const V &v) {
  t = v;
}

template< typename T, typename V >
typename enable_if< is_class< T >::value != 0 >::type fill_v(T &t, const V &v) {
  for(auto &e : t) fill_v(e, v);
}

template< typename F >
struct FixPoint : F {
  explicit FixPoint(F &&f) : F(forward< F >(f)) {}

  template< typename... Args >
  decltype(auto) operator()(Args &&... args) const {
    return F::operator()(*this, forward< Args >(args)...);
  }
};

template< typename F >
inline decltype(auto) MFP(F &&f) {
  return FixPoint< F >{forward< F >(f)};
}

int main() {
  string A, B;
  cin >> A >> B;
  vector< pair< char, int > > latte, malta;
  for(auto &c : A) {
    if(c == '?') latte.back().second = 1;
    else if(c == '*') latte.back().second = 2;
    else latte.emplace_back(c, 0);
  }
  for(auto &c : B) {
    if(c == '?') malta.back().second = 1;
    else if(c == '*') malta.back().second = 2;
    else malta.emplace_back(c, 0);
  }
  auto dp = make_v< int >(latte.size() + 1, malta.size() + 1);
  fill_v(dp, inf);
  dp[0][0] = 0;


  for(int i = 0; i <= latte.size(); i++) {
    for(int j = 0; j <= malta.size(); j++) {
      if(i) {
        chmin(dp[i][j], dp[i - 1][j] + 1);
        if(latte[i - 1].second >= 1) chmin(dp[i][j], dp[i - 1][j]);
      }
      if(j) {
        chmin(dp[i][j], dp[i][j - 1] + 1);
        if(malta[j - 1].second >= 1) chmin(dp[i][j], dp[i][j - 1]);
      }
      if(i && j) {
        chmin(dp[i][j], dp[i - 1][j - 1] + (latte[i - 1].first != malta[j - 1].first));
        if(latte[i - 1].second >= 2) chmin(dp[i][j], dp[i][j - 1] + (latte[i - 1].first != malta[j - 1].first));
        if(malta[j - 1].second >= 2) chmin(dp[i][j], dp[i - 1][j] + (latte[i - 1].first != malta[j - 1].first));
      }
    }
  }

  cout << dp[latte.size()][malta.size()] << endl;
}