#include <bits/stdc++.h>

int ri() {
	int n;
	assert(scanf("%d", &n) == 1);
	return n;
}
struct D {
	int c;
	bool one_more;
	bool more;
};
int main () {
	std::string a_, b_;
	std::cin >> a_ >> b_;
	std::vector<D> a, b;
	for (auto c : a_) {
		if (c == '*') a.back().more = true;
		else if (c == '?') a.back().one_more = true;
		else a.push_back({c - 'a', false, false});
	}
	for (auto c : b_) {
		if (c == '*') b.back().more = true;
		else if (c == '?') b.back().one_more = true;
		else b.push_back({c - 'a', false, false});
	}
	int n = a.size();
	int m = b.size();
	std::vector<int> dp[n + 1];
	for (int i = 0; i <= n; i++) dp[i].resize(m + 1, 1000000000);
	dp[0][0] = 0;
	for (int i = 0; i <= n; i++) {
		for (int j = 0; j <= m; j++) {
			if (i < n && j < m) {
				int a_add = !a[i].more;
				int b_add = !b[j].more;
				int cost = a[i].c != b[j].c;
				dp[i + a_add][j + b_add] = std::min(dp[i + a_add][j + b_add], dp[i][j] + cost);
			}
			if (i < n) {
				int cost = 1;
				if (a[i].one_more || a[i].more) cost = 0;
				else if (j < m && b[j].c == a[i].c && b[j].more) cost = 0;
				dp[i + 1][j] = std::min(dp[i + 1][j], dp[i][j] + cost);
			}
			if (j < m) {
				int cost = 1;
				if (b[j].one_more || b[j].more) cost = 0;
				else if (i < n && a[i].c == b[j].c && a[i].more) cost = 0;
				dp[i][j + 1] = std::min(dp[i][j + 1], dp[i][j] + cost);
			}
		}
	}
	std::cout << dp[n][m] << std::endl;
	return 0;
}