//https://qiita.com/tanakh/items/0ba42c7ca36cd29d0ac8 より
macro_rules! input {
    (source = $s:expr, $($r:tt)*) => {
        let mut iter = $s.split_whitespace();
        input_inner!{iter, $($r)*}
    };
    ($($r:tt)*) => {
        let s = {
            use std::io::Read;
            let mut s = String::new();
            std::io::stdin().read_to_string(&mut s).unwrap();
            s
        };
        let mut iter = s.split_whitespace();
        input_inner!{iter, $($r)*}
    };
}

macro_rules! input_inner {
    ($iter:expr) => {};
    ($iter:expr, ) => {};
    ($iter:expr, $var:ident : $t:tt $($r:tt)*) => {
        let $var = read_value!($iter, $t);
        input_inner!{$iter $($r)*}
    };
}

macro_rules! read_value {
    ($iter:expr, ( $($t:tt),* )) => {
        ( $(read_value!($iter, $t)),* )
    };
    ($iter:expr, [ $t:tt ; $len:expr ]) => {
        (0..$len).map(|_| read_value!($iter, $t)).collect::<Vec<_>>()
    };
    ($iter:expr, chars) => {
        read_value!($iter, String).chars().collect::<Vec<char>>()
    };
    ($iter:expr, usize1) => {
        read_value!($iter, usize) - 1
    };
    ($iter:expr, $t:ty) => {
        $iter.next().unwrap().parse::<$t>().expect("Parse error")
    };
}

// ここまで

fn convert(a: Vec<char>) -> Vec<(char, u8)> {
    let mut s = vec![];
    let mut i = 0;
    while i < a.len() {
        if i + 1 < a.len() && a[i + 1] == '?' {
            s.push((a[i], 1));
            i += 2;
        } else if i + 1 < a.len() && a[i + 1] == '*' {
            s.push((a[i], 2));
            i += 2;
        } else {
            s.push((a[i], 0));
            i += 1;
        }
    }
    s
}

use std::cmp::min;

fn run() {
    input! {
        a: chars,
        b: chars,
    }
    let a = convert(a);
    let b = convert(b);
    let mut dp = vec![vec![0; b.len() + 1]; a.len() + 1];
    for i in 1..=a.len() {
        if a[i - 1].1 > 0 {
            dp[i][0] = dp[i - 1][0];
        } else {
            dp[i][0] = dp[i - 1][0] + 1;
        }
    }
    for i in 1..=b.len() {
        if b[i - 1].1 > 0 {
            dp[0][i] = dp[0][i - 1];
        } else {
            dp[0][i] = dp[0][i - 1] + 1;
        }
    }
    for i in 1..=a.len() {
        for j in 1..=b.len() {
            let x = a[i - 1];
            let y = b[j - 1];
            dp[i][j] = min(dp[i - 1][j] + 1, min(dp[i][j - 1] + 1, dp[i - 1][j - 1] + 1));
            if x.1 > 0 {
                dp[i][j] = min(dp[i][j], dp[i - 1][j]);
            }
            if y.1 > 0 {
                dp[i][j] = min(dp[i][j], dp[i][j - 1]);
            }
            if x.0 == y.0 {
                dp[i][j] = min(dp[i][j], dp[i - 1][j - 1]);
                if x.1 == 2 {
                    dp[i][j] = min(dp[i][j], dp[i][j - 1]);
                }
                if y.1 == 2 {
                    dp[i][j] = min(dp[i][j], dp[i - 1][j]);
                }
            }
        }
    }
    println!("{}", dp[a.len()][b.len()]);
}

fn main() {
    run();
}