import kotlin.math.min

// なんか本番でエラーでる
private val isDebug = runCatching {
  System.getenv("MY_DEBUG") != null
}.fold({it}, {false})

private fun readLn() = readLine()!!
private fun readInt() = readLn().toInt()
private fun readStrings() = readLn().split(" ")
private fun readInts() = readStrings().map { it.toInt() }.toIntArray()
private fun readLongs() = readStrings().map { it.toLong() }.toLongArray()
private fun debug(msg: () -> String) {
  if (isDebug) System.err.println(msg())
}
private fun debug(a: IntArray) {
  if (isDebug) debug{a.joinToString(" ")}
}
private fun debugDim(A: Array<IntArray>) {
  if (isDebug) {
    for (a in A) {
      debug(a)
    }
  }
}

val MOD = 1000000007

data class Entry(val i: Int, val x: Long)

fun main() {
  val A = readLine()!!
  val B = readLine()!!
  val dp = Array(A.length + 1){IntArray(B.length + 1){1e9.toInt()} }
  dp[0][0] = 0

  fun distance(i: Int, j: Int): Int {
    return if (A[i] == B[j]) 0 else 1
  }

  for (i in 0..A.length) {
    if (i > 0 && (A[i-1] == '?' || A[i-1] == '*')) {
      for (j in 0..B.length) {
        dp[i][j] = dp[i-1][j]
      }
    } else {
      for (j in 0..B.length) {
        if (i == 0 && j == 0) continue

        if (j > 0 && (B[j-1] == '?' || B[j-1] == '*')) {
          dp[i][j] = dp[i][j-1]
        } else {
          if (i > 0 && j > 0) dp[i][j] = min(dp[i][j], dp[i-1][j-1] + distance(i-1, j-1))
          if (j > 0 && i < A.length && A[i] == '*') dp[i][j] = min(dp[i][j], dp[i][j-1] + distance(i-1, j-1))
          if (i > 0 && j < B.length && B[j] == '*') dp[i][j] = min(dp[i][j], dp[i-1][j] + distance(i-1, j-1))
          if (i > 0) dp[i][j] = min(dp[i][j], dp[i-1][j] + 1)
          if (i > 0 && i < A.length && (A[i] == '?' || A[i] == '*')) dp[i][j] = min(dp[i][j], dp[i-1][j])
          if (j > 0) dp[i][j] = min(dp[i][j], dp[i][j-1] + 1)
          if (j > 0 && j < B.length && (B[j] == '?' || B[j] == '*')) dp[i][j] = min(dp[i][j], dp[i][j-1])
        }
      }
    }
  }

  debugDim(dp)
  println(dp[A.length][B.length])
}