#include <iostream>
#include <string>

using namespace std;

string s, t;
string s1, s2, t1, t2;
int dp[2005][2005];

int main(void)
{
	cin >> s >> t;
	
	for(int i = 0; i < s.size(); i++){
		if(s[i] == '?' || s[i] == '*'){
			s1.erase(s1.end()-1);
			s1 += s[i];
		}
		else s1 += s[i], s2 += s[i];
	}
	for(int i = 0; i < t.size(); i++){
		if(t[i] == '?' || t[i] == '*'){
			t1.erase(t1.end()-1);
			t1 += t[i];
		}
		else t1 += t[i], t2 += t[i];
	}
	s = s1, t = t1;
	
	int S = s.size(), T = t.size();
	s = "#" + s, t = "#" + t;
	s2 = "#" + s2, t2 = "#" + t2;
	
	for(int i = 0; i <= S; i++){
		for(int j = 0; j <= T; j++){
			dp[i][j] = 1e9;
		}
	}
	dp[0][0] = 0;
	
	for(int i = 0; i <= S; i++){
		for(int j = 0; j <= T; j++){
			if(j == T){
				if(i == S) continue;
				if(s[i+1] == '?' || s[i+1] == '*') dp[i+1][j] = min(dp[i+1][j], dp[i][j]);
				else dp[i+1][j] = min(dp[i+1][j], dp[i][j]+1);
				continue;
			}
			if(i == S){
				if(t[j+1] == '?' || t[j+1] == '*') dp[i][j+1] = min(dp[i][j+1], dp[i][j]);
				else dp[i][j+1] = min(dp[i][j+1], dp[i][j]+1);
				continue;
			}
			
			char c = s[i+1], d = t[j+1];
			if(c == '?' || c == '*') c = s2[i+1];
			if(d == '?' || d == '*') d = t2[j+1];
			
			if(c == d){
				dp[i+1][j+1] = min(dp[i+1][j+1], dp[i][j]);
				if(s[i+1] == '*') dp[i][j+1] = min(dp[i][j+1], dp[i][j]);
				if(t[j+1] == '*') dp[i+1][j] = min(dp[i+1][j], dp[i][j]);
			}
			
			dp[i+1][j] = min(dp[i+1][j], dp[i][j]+1); //delete
			dp[i][j+1] = min(dp[i][j+1], dp[i][j]+1); //insert
			dp[i+1][j+1] = min(dp[i+1][j+1], dp[i][j]+1); //update
			
			if(s[i+1] == '?' || s[i+1] == '*') dp[i+1][j] = min(dp[i+1][j], dp[i][j]);
			if(t[j+1] == '?' || t[j+1] == '*') dp[i][j+1] = min(dp[i][j+1], dp[i][j]);
		}
	}
	cout << dp[S][T] << endl;
	
	return 0;
}