A=input()
B=input()
boundA=[0]
boundB=[0]
for i in range(1,len(A)):
    if not A[i] in "*?":
        boundA.append(i)
boundA.append(len(A))
for i in range(1,len(B)):
    if not B[i] in "*?":
        boundB.append(i)
boundB.append(len(B))
A=[A[i:j] for i,j in zip(boundA,boundA[1:])]
B=[B[i:j] for i,j in zip(boundB,boundB[1:])]
leA=len(A)
leB=len(B)
inf=1<<30
dp=[[inf]*(leB+1) for a in range(leA+1)]
dp[0][0]=0
for i in range(leA+1):
    for j in range(leB+1):
        if i:
            dp[i][j]=min(dp[i][j],dp[i-1][j]+1)
            if len(A[i-1])==2 and A[i-1][1] in "?*":
                dp[i][j]=min(dp[i][j],dp[i-1][j])
        if j:
            dp[i][j]=min(dp[i][j],dp[i][j-1]+1)
            if len(B[j-1])==2 and B[j-1][1] in "?*":
                dp[i][j]=min(dp[i][j],dp[i][j-1])
        if i and j:
            dp[i][j]=min(dp[i][j],dp[i-1][j-1]+1)
            if A[i-1]==B[j-1]:
                dp[i][j]=min(dp[i][j],dp[i-1][j-1])
            if len(A[i-1])==2 and A[i-1][1]=="?" and A[i-1][0]==B[j-1]:
                dp[i][j]=min(dp[i][j],dp[i-1][j-1])
            if len(B[j-1])==2 and B[j-1][1]=="?" and B[j-1][0]==A[i-1]:
                dp[i][j]=min(dp[i][j],dp[i-1][j-1])

            if len(A[i-1])==2 and A[i-1][1]=="*" and A[i-1][0]==B[j-1]:
                dp[i][j]=min(dp[i][j],dp[i-1][j-1])
            if len(B[j-1])==2 and B[j-1][1]=="*" and B[j-1][0]==A[i-1]:
                dp[i][j]=min(dp[i][j],dp[i-1][j-1])

            if len(A[i-1])==2 and A[i-1][1]=="*" and A[i-1][0]==B[j-1]:
                dp[i][j]=min(dp[i][j],dp[i][j-1])
            if len(B[j-1])==2 and B[j-1][1]=="*" and B[j-1][0]==A[i-1]:
                dp[i][j]=min(dp[i][j],dp[i-1][j])
ans=dp[leA][leB]
print(ans)